From self-doubt to self-belief: Strategies to beat imposter syndrome

Is imposter syndrome something that can be fully "overcome," or is it more about managing it over time? 

Guest: Allison Arnekrans, professor of counseling at Central Michigan University

What factors contribute to imposter syndrome? 

Adam: But there's other things that factor into this for folks. So what other psychological factors contribute to imposter syndrome's development? 

Allison: Yeah, there are a few of those. Definitely. And there's, and we'll talk about this a little bit too, is there some characteristics that breed imposter syndrome as well, but psychological factors like perfectionism. I mean, that's a clear one, or something that's readily thought about within the context of imposter syndrome. So just really having that unrealistically high expectation for self, but also maybe then that you impose that on others, that you expect that perfectionism from people as well. But sometimes that can lead to inadequacy. If I'm not performing at my peak level, what does that say about me? Or again, what can people, people might think about me or perceive in some way? Yeah, so perfectionism, we talked about self-doubt. So just something that chronic worry about our own abilities, and that can create a sense of feeling like a fraud or then acting out in a fraudulent manner that maybe you are so scared about a presentation that you're going to have you, over prepare, but then kind of freeze in the moment. And that's very plausible. That happens a lot. So kind of those self-fulfilling prophecies, right? 

Adam: A little self-sabotage, maybe? 

Allison: A little bit, yeah. Yeah, fear of failure. So worrying about failure and how that lends to you over preparation or overthinking things, and kind of that fact of what falls at the wayside when all my time and energy is spent within that, within that, I don't like that one. Sorry. Whatever. 

Adam: You’re okay. 

Allison: Okay. Okay. We'll just do that. So maybe another one. Let's do another one. So another one would be comparisons. Frequently comparing ourselves to other, particularly in competitive environments, we talked about that. I'm just thinking about faculty too. Faculty have to go up for that promotion and tenure, and we have to submit a portfolio of all the things that we've done. And that is a breeding ground for competition or just the self-evaluation or comparison of like, wow, I am either at this level or oftentimes it's the opposite. I need to do more of this, that, and the other to be at this level. So I see this a lot, again, within higher education for sure. But another psychological factor would just be low self esteem. And we talked about this a little bit. So imposter syndrome isn't a diagnosable mental health disorder, but it often co-occurs or co-exists with diagnosable mental disorder. So different types of anxiety, different types of depression, some of the mood disorders. So people with anxiety, depression and so on, they often do have low self-esteem, right? They're kind of going through some stuff. So it's understandable then that the thought pattern is impacted here, and that's what we're talking about with this imposter syndrome, 

Adam: Right? Yeah, there's definitely, there's a difference between I have, I'm depressed and I am experiencing imposter syndrome versus I'm having imposter syndrome occasionally, or even regularly. There's differences, like you said, these can be stacked onto different, you said mood disorders. I don't know. I have borderline personality and I'm feeling imposter syndrome. I have anxiety and I have imposter syndrome, but they're not mutually exclusive. 

Allison: No, no. And I think that's an important thing to note is just that you can have imposter syndrome and not have another diagnosable mental health disorder. That can occur. You can have a diagnosis and also have imposter syndrome. But I would say for most people, it's kind of one of those things that come and go. It's not something that's debilitating or it can be. It certainly can be. And that's when I think you'll need to reevaluate, is this causing issues in multiple domains of my life that I'm being, I'm not able to pursue certain things because of this really pervasive thought pattern.

Adam: I love that because having a mindful moment is so hard in 2024, almost 2025. We live in an era where I think we're constantly, we're online, we're stimulated all the time. Being with yourself to consider those irrational thoughts is really hard to do. I feel like, I'll pat myself in the back and I don't deserve it necessarily, but in the last, I don't know, three months, I've been trying to reduce the amount of time I'm on my phone. So I just took this really simple strategy of putting my phone down and putting it out of my reach. So if I'm going to go sit down at home, if I'm sitting in bed or I'm sitting in a chair, I put it far enough away where I can't pick it up. So I'm reading a book or I'm talking to somebody, I don't do it, and it's really reduced my screen time. And I do think it's made it easier for me. This is so stupid. 

Allison: No. 

Adam: But it's made it easier for me to do things like stand in line and stuff like that. And so I'm wondering what are some of those other ways that people can cope? I think mindfulness is always great and take advice from somebody who's not qualified right now and put your phone down because just not get rid of it. I'm not saying you have to be this person who's like, “I don't use a phone at all anymore,” but I cut my screen time in half and I feel proud of it, and now I'm looking at my kids and they're teenagers. They're like, “no,” 

Allison: That's not an option. 

Adam: “You know what you could do?” But in terms of imposter syndrome and fighting those feelings, what are some of those other coping mechanisms that we can bring to the table? 

Allison: And I just want to elaborate on your point about mindfulness just really quickly, is that it has to be an awareness, and it's the small things. It's just walking down the street and seeing the change, the color variation, change in the trees, drinking your hot tea or your hot cocoa and really, really tasting it. So it's that slowing down. It's that being present in the moment. That is a starting place. But you're right, it's not the end all be all other ways acknowledging it. It's just acknowledging that you're feeling the way that you're feeling. We talked about feelings are valid. That's the truth. So recognizing that some of these feelings are normal, and again, that most people experience them at some point and in some way. These are really common too during those growth and transition periods. So think about academic transitions, high school to college. I'm sure that's a piece of this puzzle. When students come to campus that first semester and they don't want to be here or they want to leave, they're having that homesick of just like, “what did I just get myself into? How am I going to do this? Am I enough?” So high school to college, college into a first job, graduate school into licensure, whatever that looks like. Imposter syndrome is even more common during those periods of transition. So I think that's just important to acknowledge it, to recognize it. I think too, another way is just tracking your successes. So actually taking some time to take stock in what you have done. I don't think that we do this enough. We're busy doing the next thing, but yeah, okay, what have I accomplished this year? And that could look like goal setting on January 1st, whatever it may be, identifying things that you do want to achieve. And then on December 31st of each year, evaluating what did happen. So that's the quantifiable part, right? But sometimes people aren't driven in that way. They don't want a number. So it's then just reflecting on maybe what were the highlights of my year? What felt good or what felt was excited about this year? So how can we take the stress and pressure off, especially for our high achieving, neurotic sometimes, perfectionists, take away the numbers and just base it on feelings. What made me feel good this year? What is something I'm particularly proud of? So we can change how we track it. Another one, and definitely one we work on a lot in counseling is that reframing our thoughts. So using cognitive behavioral techniques to help us understand what is a cognitive distortion, what are the types of cognitive distortions? And recognizing, being able to be in that moment and recognize, okay, I'm experiencing this. This is an actual distortion. There's not based in reality or in truth. So I can discredit it and I can push it aside. 

Adam: It's an internal conversation, right? 

Allison: Internal conversation. Perfect word for it. Yes, yes, yes. So it's just focusing on what's true in the situation, understanding that you're in a place of learning and growing at all times. Honestly, I've been working with people in this counseling relationship for over 15 years, and I have not met one perfect person, not one. So it just doesn't exist. And when I look at somebody and I give them that grace of, I know that you're not perfect and you're still wonderful and successful and all the things, it makes an opportunity for connection much more natural and genuine. 

Adam: You probably have never met somebody who's 100% confident all the time. And if you did, how dangerous would that person be? 

Allison: Then it could go into a diagnosable mental health disorder.  

Adam: I think there's something there too, when you were talking about these non-quantifiable things, and I'll have a follow up question for this, but it struck me as that tends to be me. I don't like quantifying things stresses me out. So I'm like, okay, how did I feel about this? Did this work in the big picture sense of things? And part of that is having that internal dialogue with yourself maybe more often too, because I know if I have an imposter feeling, it's definitely having an evil twin. And the evil twin is like, “well, we better hide out while we're here.” I know that's kind of at least how I kind of picture it in my head. It's like an evil twin or something, or I always don't know if anyone's ever, what's the Stephen King novel where the guy has a twin growing in his brain, they have to remove it. Do you guys remember this? Nevermind. It's only me. Horrible reference on the podcast. It's called The Dark Side or the Dark. I don't know the guys, but they remove it, but then it of course grows out of the grave or something. I can't remember the name of it. I read a lot of Stephen King when I was a teenager. Some of them bleed together, but that's what it always feels like to me. So I'm wondering, are there other more, you have that internal dialogue, but there are other daily coping mechanisms, kind of these smaller things to help you just kind of either push it aside or put it into a smaller box or whatever people need to do. 

Allison: Absolutely. First though, on that topic, there are people though without the internal dialogue. Did you know that? 

Adam: I know that drives me crazy thinking about it. 

Allison: I cannot conceptualize that. I cannot wrap my brain around it. 

Adam: No, they're like a lizard.  

Allison: I don't know how you do that. And then I'm like, ah, can I turn mine off or something? Or adjust it in some way. That would be great.  

Adam: Turn the volume down a little bit, right?  

Allison: But yes, there are some things that we can do on a daily basis. So some daily affirmations of ourselves. So writing or speaking of words of gratitude to ourselves. Small, doesn't take but a few seconds, but could highlight some of our skills and accomplishment, just as a reminder. I've seen people write a daily affirmation on their mirror like in chapstick or one of those chalk marker pens, and that seems to just be, Hey, just want to, memory jogger. So daily affirmations, talking about it, I know that sounds simplified, but talking about what you're thinking or feeling with somebody outside of the context, if your imposter syndrome is related to work life or your professional aspirations. Talking to somebody who's not in your professional world might be a help. So it's kind of like that mirroring aspect of, I don’t know what you're in, but I just want to validate your experience. Talking about is super helpful. Another one, just setting realistic goals. So not planning your entire week or your entire month where everything is full. Thinking about what is actually reasonable and feasible for me to get done within this day, within this month, whatever it may be. I think sometimes we bite off more than we can chew, and I think it goes back to that questioning ourselves of, is this something that I'm actually passionate about or want to do more of? Because if it's not, it's going to be much more laborious to do a task if we're not really invested in it. So just being mindful of what can I actually, again, reasonably or feasibly do within this timeframe or what's reasonable or feasible for me to do within my career and setting the bar a little bit lower. I don't know. That's been an interesting one, and that's one that we help people a lot out with in counseling, to be honest, is just what, asking those kind of tough questions maybe that you can't think of yourself, but asking them in a way that is supportive of somebody and acknowledges their strengths, but also helps them to be productive and recognize the productivity in action. Even those small steps, they count. They count. So goal setting. But the last one I would just say is gratitude. So showing gratitude to self, to others, acknowledging people's efforts. It's a small thing. It doesn't take a lot of time. It's free, but it can be a great benefit to yourself and to others when you just acknowledging their presence, their involvement, their effort. So gratitude. 

Adam: I want to spin off that a little bit and talk about our influence on other people who might be going through this. You're talking about it in a professional space, and I think you're talking about lowering the bar on something every now and then. I think that's tough, and it's tough to think about that, particularly if you work somewhere where there's an expectation of high achievement, but sometimes it's okay to be like, eh. And if you're in a leadership position or you're a manager or your project lead on something, what's a way that you can support, bring some of that anxiety down if you recognize some of that behavior, which is essentially like we're spending too much time polishing something, or we're not starting things at all. We're only doing things when we're under a deadline. How do we adjust that so that people can themselves have a better experience when they're working on a project or on a team? 

Allison: Yeah, that's a great question. So from the leadership, from a boss supervisor's perspective, how do I support my people 

Adam: Or teacher to student even or 

Allison: Teacher to student? Yeah, that's great. Let's start with just kind of normalizing their vulnerability. So if they're bringing that to you in some form or fashion, acknowledge that like, “wow, that probably did take some courage for you to share that with me. It must be intense enough for you to actually bring it out.” You could just shove this down, but you're intentionally talking about it with me. That could include, again, just acknowledging it. It could also include maybe sharing a little bit of your own story or normalizing it in the way of, that's a common thing. People come into this job and they often are kind of in a state of anxiety or overwhelm in these first few weeks because of the workload and trying to understand our position. So normalizing, recognizing that vulnerability. One other strategy though for them would be just giving that feedback and recognition on a semi consistent or continual basis that it shouldn't just be once a year at the holiday party that we're acknowledging people or giving awards that we're regularly acknowledging our team members. We identify people's roles, what they contribute, and we just reinforce their value. We want them to know, “Hey, we see you, we doing the work and we appreciate you.” So feedback, recognition, mentorship! Mentorship's, often one too that I see that's helpful in that workplace environment of just somebody to either vent to or collaborate with or just process situations with. This becomes really valuable. Again, then it takes the pressure maybe off the leader, the manager, the role of the supervisor and makes it kind of more of a level playing field with somebody at your level. So being able to build some of those community networks within the workplace that offer support and guidance, that's helpful. I don't know, I often use the word enough, what's enough for me to get this task completed? Maybe it's not my best work or effort, but what's enough to complete the job and that it's a checklist off my task list, but maybe it's emphasizing learning over perfection so that the focus isn't on, it's about the process. And we talked about that a little bit before the process as opposed to the end goal. 

Adam: Yeah, we're getting better at something versus nailing it every time, I think. And there's a lot to be said about that. I mean, I know in my career there's been an awful lot of hindsight's 20/20, and I think you have to appreciate why hindsight is 20/20, too. You can't just go, “man, that was awful.” You have to go, “man, how much better have I gotten at doing this task or doing this thing over the last six months or year, or 10 years or whatever it is.” And that's not that you were horrible before that. That process has keeps giving to you, which is something you should be proud of because even if you're starting to feel good about it now, I'm probably in 10 years ago, “man, look how bad it was at task A, task B back then.” 

Allison: Oh, I'm laughing. Because yeah, I do think about especially teenagers or young adults right now, and you do have that feeling of like, oh, I know everything and I got this and I want you to know, and then you're a little bit later in life and you're like, wow! 

Adam: I didn't know anything.  

Allison: I didn't know anything, yeah. And I can really relate to that too, just in terms of my own self. I first started off, my first professional position was as a child adolescent counselor working in community mental health. I wasn't partnered and I didn't have any children at that time, and I was giving parents advice on parenting, behavior management strategies, things like that. And I was called out a few times of what makes you credible, you know what I mean, like why you? And that it took me a step back and got a little defensive at times. Now here later with three young children, gosh, I would've told them some really different advice and supported parents in a much different way had I known, had I had that experience. 

Adam: But you didn't, and you grew. 

Allison: You didn't, and you grew. Yes. Yeah. 

Adam: I think there's an awful lot there. And this is such an old guys thing to say, but wisdom and confidence comes from knowing what you don't know. I feel like confidence for me, when I can muster up enough of it to feel really confident, because don't always, it usually is rooted in not like I'm so sure about this to all the way to the horizon. It's not usually that. It's usually being like, I'm sure about these things and I know darn well where the blind spots are. And I feel like that's where real confidence kind of comes from, and that is not an easy place to arrive at, and it's not an easy place for me to arrive at all the time either. I'm certainly not trying to say that because I've got, wish I had a book to sell that would give that to you. 

Allison: Right? Same. 

Adam: But I don't. But I do feel like that's sort of it, and it's hard. You have to learn to acknowledge that, right? 

Allison: Absolutely. And honestly, I felt that way just before coming in here of almost putting myself up to the deadline of, okay, well you know what? I'm just going to do it and we're going to get through it. I have a hundred percent track record of getting through each day, so I'm going to do this 

Adam: So far, right. 

Allison: Right. So far, so far, you're right. But yeah, again, and I just want to be really transparent about that. Giving a presentation on imposter syndrome encouraged more imposter syndrome in myself, even though I do. Yeah, high level, highly educated, well-trained person, it doesn't discriminate. It can affect anybody. And at any day. I like that-I just have that saying that I usually use of maybe I can't get to that today, whatever that is, and I'm not going to be able to do my best on it, so I'm going to just save it. I know that there will be another day that I'll either feel better or be more self-confident that I'm ready to tackle that. So just allowing yourself the grace, giving yourself that daily grace of like, okay, this is where I'm at today. I mean, there's probably some things that I could either do to mitigate it or to improve the situation, whatever that may be, but I need to just acknowledge where I'm at right now. 

Adam: If some of this stuff isn't working, where does professional help come in? What are those first steps or what's a way to acknowledge that you might need some therapy to help you get through it? 

Allison: Yeah, so therapy is definitely an option. And I have a lot of people come in of, I thought about canceling today because I didn't feel like I had anybody or anything I had anything to talk about. And we always laugh at the end of that session because we're like, oh, all the things come out. But counselors can really be helpful here in terms of identifying negative thought patterns and helping you to replace them with healthier, more realistic thought patterns, developing coping skills for managing stress and anxiety, and then working to help rebuild that self-esteem. Right. It sounds like that's typically a sign or symptom is that low self esteem. So how can the counselor do some targeted exercises and activities to help you rebuild that? Again, one of those is recognizing those small successes each day. It might not be our definition of what success is, but that's a part of the counseling process is how can we redefine what success means to us or how we look at it or approach it. And I think people know, is it impacting, am I not able to look at another job? Am I not willing to negotiate a salary change or something because I'm so scared to talk with my supervisor or boss? Am I being discerning or prohibitive in certain ways that's not allowing me to do what I need to do? I think that's kind of when people need to reevaluate. Maybe I do need to consider talking to somebody about this or doing something about it.