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What's fueling the rise in popularity of women's sports?

| 34 minutes | Media Contact: University Communications

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Summary

Women’s sports are reaching new heights in popularity. So, what’s behind that surge – and how can women’s sports continue to grow and evolve?

Guest: Tangela Cheatham, deputy athletic director for administration at Central Michigan University.

Summary 

In this episode of The Search Bar, Tangela Cheatham, deputy athletic director for administration at Central Michigan University, discusses the rise in popularity of women's sports. She highlights the impact of athletes like Caitlin Clark in women's basketball and the increased exposure and access provided by social media. Cheatham emphasizes the importance of representation and the value it holds for young girls and women. She also discusses the need for continued support and advocacy to ensure the growth and success of women's sports. The conversation touches on pay parity, the role of intentionality in organizations, and the future of women's sports.

Transcript

Chapters 

Introduction

Tangela: I wanna see people keep the excitement. So continuing to watch these sports and buy the league pass and keeping their subscriptions, watching these games when they're coming on, buying tickets. We want to make sure that we're continuing to get worked up and excited as these things are happening and paying attention to them and putting our money behind those things because that's how things work, right? We have to make sure we're continuing to support, continuing to advocate, continuing to follow and be a part of this special thing that's happening in women's sports.

Adam: Women's sports are reaching new heights and popularity, so what's behind the surge and how can women's sports continue to grow and evolve? Welcome to the Search Bar. I'm your host, Adam Sparkes, and on today's episode, we're talking with Tangela Cheatham, Deputy Athletic Director at Central Michigan University. Well, thanks for coming in today, Tangela, I'm so excited to talk to you.

Tangela: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

How has the “Caitlin Clark Effect” impacted women’s sports?

Adam: Leading us into the past two years really, where we've seen kind of the Caitlin Clark thing explode, which has been, I mean, inarguably one of the most exciting big, yeah, one of the most exciting basketball players that anyone's ever seen anywhere. It feels like the second or third year that Steph Curry was in the league and everyone started going, "this guy shoots from where?" And then now it's like, "she shoots from where?" And I'm just kind of curious for you what other, to me, those are kind of the watermarks of something of a tide that feels like it's going to continue to rise. I'm wondering what those indicators mean to you or what other indicators you see that we're in for a little bit more of a ride when it comes to the celebrity and the fandom of female sports?

Tangela: I would agree, especially with Caitlin Clark and what we've seen with the rise of women's basketball. I think right now women's basketball is huge, right? So, the Caitlin Clark Effect effect is what we're hearing, and you'll hear Angel Reese in there, your Juju Watkins and some of that. And I think it's really exciting the opportunities they're getting from a marketing standpoint. And social media has been huge and what women's athletics has been able to do for all sports, not just basketball, but soccer as well, and volleyball as well. What we're seeing is unprecedented as far as exposure and people getting eyes on women athletes and somewhat not caring about their gender, which we can probably get on a little bit later. But I'm watching Indiana Fever games whenever I get a chance. There are only a few in right now, but I'm excited to see what they'll continue to do.

But to your point, I think Caitlin Clark and what she's been doing and not even asking for it and just taking ownership and running and being excited for the celebrity that she's not asked for and just going with it. Anytime you hear her talk, she talks about the experiences that she had as a young fan and leaning into it and running with it. I think that's been something that's beautiful and leading to the further growth of what women's athletics is doing. Volleyball and what we saw in Nebraska with the almost a hundred thousand people that were interested in seeing what they were doing from in a football, being in a football stadium and watching them and doing what they did out there. As well as, again, going back to Caitlin Clark, Crossover at Kinnick and having 55,000 people there to watch. I mean, they even talked about a little bit later how people at the stadium couldn't really even see what was happening on the court, but they wanted to be there and be a part of it because that's the impact and growth that women's athletics is having right now.

How important is access and exposure in growing women’s sports?

Tangela: So, I think just the exposure and access, again, I think social media is having a big impact on people's interest in college athletics and women's athletics in general on the growth of athletics. So I don't think it's one specific thing that is leading to the growth and interest in the rise of women's athletics today. I think there are a number of things, to your point that have led to it from the National Women's Soccer League and the opportunities for parity from not only pay, but access and exposure from companies and buying into what they're doing past the tendencies. For a long time it was, you see your Serena Williams, your Naomi Osaka previously, your Steffi Graf, right? You see all those things, but I don't think it's one moment that you see these things happening, but I do think the exposure has led to a lot of opportunity for women. So again, you see Nebraska volleyball, you see again the women at Iowa playing, and people just want to be a part of it, and social media I think has been a big part of that growth.

Adam: Yeah, I wanted to get your thoughts on that a little bit more because it strikes me that even as recently as seven or eight years ago, if you had this conversation about something like the WNBA, there was a lot of cynicism on cable news networks, let's just say that show a lot of sports about when this discussion would come up that well pay parody or having more of these games televised is pointless because it doesn't make money. And I feel like there's a chicken or the egg moment that sort of happened here, which is, and I think it is social media because I feel a little bit like people gaining their own access to these athletes, to their training regimens, to their personalities, their dedication to the sport, and then the result on the court, I'm just going to use basketball as the euphemism now. But I do think it applies to other sports. The audience was always there, we just weren't giving them what they want. So, do you feel like some of these, I guess either if it's television networks or if it's executives who could have been using female athletes as sorry executives that are using female athletes to sponsor their products or their programs, do you think there's a little egg on their face right now because it feels like they were wrong, right?

Tangela: Well, I think to your point, I think that is the access had been limited before. So, when you provide access, then you do see that people want to see this product. And I think that's what companies are seeing now, which is why they're investing more in showcasing this product. I was actually watching South by Southwest with Sue Bird and Jessica Robertson is her last name, and they were talking about how when Sue was injured, she was trying to watch some of the games and she couldn't watch them because they weren't being streamed. And obviously now we're seeing Disney Plus has bought in ESPN, which obviously same parent company, but they're streaming more games now. We had to find a way to get preseason games for the WNBA stream because they're seeing that people want to watch women's sports. And so I do think there is some, to use your words, egg on the face, that people want to watch women's sports.

And again, I think we'll get to a point where it's not just women's sports. People want to watch sports. They're athletes. These are fierce competitors that go out and compete, take away gender. They happen to be women, happen to be men, whatever the gender is, they're out there competing and people want to watch. And so I think that's again, a part of the growth, part of the rise is that we're making access more readily available. So you can go on the 50,000 streaming apps out there now and see flag football. I saw a few a month or so ago, I turned on there at a Disney complex in their youth to children five to however old to high school aged girls and boys playing flag football. Who knew that was something that people were wanting to do, but it's out there and people are watching it because now there's access to it.

And so absolutely, I think I've heard so many, again, there are so many podcasts. We're on a podcast right now where I've heard, especially this last year, people saying, I know so many more women's basketball players than even men's basketball players. Again, I think there's just been a blow up of the Paige Bueckers, the Juju Watkins, the Cameron Brink, the Angel Reese, and then those are all college basketball players, but now they're transitioning to the WNBA and we talk about parity. Obviously there are only 12 WNBA teams currently, but they're expanding, right? Golden State's, getting a team. It sounds like there's going to be a Canadian team. And so there have been some teams that are no longer right, RIP Detroit Shock, but who knows what the future may hold. But the access to, again, to your point earlier, seeing the women compete at the WNBA level is important, but kind of going back is getting an opportunity to compete at the professional level is very important.

And so again, I've heard so many times, I know more women basketball players this year on so many different podcasts, I've heard it than men. And that's not to say that the men's game isn't as important anymore, but it just shows how making access to seeing these young women or women compete can change people's interests. And so that's only, I think, a better thing for these companies that are now investing in women's sports to show them that, hey, if you put more money, you put more backing in this, people will watch, which is even better for your product. And now whatever company you are, maybe more people are going out and supporting that just like they did when you were showing maybe more men's sport or another product on your platform.

How does women’s college basketball benefit from not having the “one and done” rule?

Adam: I think part of women's basketball in particular right now too, is that women play four years at one college. Yeah, there's a storyline to follow, right? Angel, if you like, Angel Reese, and she's certainly provided a storyline. Sometimes it's probably a storyline I don't think she wanted to be in, but it's been interesting. It's been really interesting to watch the growth of the player, the growth of the personality and the reality right now with men's basketball, at least at a college level, is good luck getting a guy to play more than a year anywhere right now. And there's a lot of other factors with that.

Tangela: The transfer portal is a thing for all of them now, and it makes it fun. And again, even Angel started at Maryland and closed out her career being the Bayou Barbie down at LSU again, but it worked out for her, and she did build a fan base and she closed out, helped them win a championship and build some affinity there. But the women do stay in college longer, to your point, so there's not the one and done opportunity. So, they are in college a little bit longer. They can build the fan base, and not that the men don't, but there is an opportunity to build those folks that have that stronger connection to them for a little bit longer at the college level that I do think goes a long way when they transition to the professional level for those that have a professional opportunity in their sport.

Adam: The way that the college game has been being paid attention to the last three or four years, I can't imagine that that's not going to be just a big win for the WNBA right now because many of these young women have become household names and you've been able to kind of follow them.

Tangela: Yeah, I'm looking forward to Paige Bueckers been watching her, I mean, since she was coming up and she had a tough time with an injury or so, but I had an opportunity to go to the Final Four in Cleveland, and that was an amazing atmosphere. Our athletics director is on the NCAA selection committee, and so going down there and experiencing the Final Four and just the engagement and the excitement for Caitlin Clark, right? There are so many people, so many people there. Those folks have never been to Iowa. They have never seen Carver Hawkeye Arena, have never set foot in the class, but just the excitement there was good to see. So, excited for some of those women who competed at that stage to go on to the next level because to your point, they've been in college, they've been kind of paying their dues, and I'm looking forward to seeing them experience success in whatever they're going to do in life, whether that's competed at the next level or go and just pursue life and be great women and contribute positively to society.

How are college athletics departments making positive, intentional changes?

Adam: For larger programs. In particular, this type of growth too. It's going to be something that people who work for athletic departments like yourself, there's probably a lot of navigating that's going on at Iowa right now. I have to imagine the shift in how they had to handle that team in the last two years must've been really drastic for the athletic director, for the coaches, for the entire team. What is the difference in a team where I'm going to throw hypothetical out, and please correct me if I'm wrong here, but before this, before Caitlin Clark became a household name, they could probably get on and off a bus, go through the airport, go to their games, maybe they'd get noticed by one or two people, but she can't walk out of that stadium without security now, I imagine. So I think the whole thing has changed. How do you learn to grow with something like that if you're an athletic department at a college?

Tangela: Funny, I actually just listened to a podcast with their athletics director, Beth Goetz, who's a former MAC Athletics director actually before she went there. And she talked about just that thing about how they had to adjust some of what they did, not only to protect Caitlin, but to protect their fans, their young fans who want to come up and get Caitlin's autograph, ingress, egress out of Carver Hawkeye to make sure people are safe. And so you do, and that takes the entire department. So that's not just the athletics director, that's your facilities and events team, that's your academic advisors, making sure the team still has to do well with all of the hype around them. So, it takes a full department effort to your point, it is isn’t just a day in the office anymore. It takes a planning that's an additional meeting or two a week planning for this upcoming event. They sold out probably every game this year, home and away they were going on the road and selling all out at Rutgers. So, it's not even just Iowa planning for this change is now every school they're going to planning for additional fanfare, which again contributes to the rise in women's sports, which is nothing but great for all of us and for all of those institutions, even some of the smaller institutions that they may have gone in competed against or near even.

Adam: It's like a Magic and Bird type of thing where it was like when my dad was a kid, the NBA wasn't that big of a thing. It was a tier three sport or a tier two sport, I guess, depending on how you want to measure it. And in a lot of ways, it was those two guys at one point where it was like, man, 1979 or 1980 or something, if you went to The Palace, wait, they weren't even played in The Palace then.

Tangela: They were at The Joe or something.

Adam: I think they were at The Joe, but they probably didn't feel the place until Magic Johnson showed up. And it doesn't hurt that he played at Michigan State or Larry Bird showed up. And I think that contributed to the idea of, "oh, I can go watch a basketball game and really enjoy it." And I imagine that Caitlin Clark's the kind of lingering effect that it's had on these other schools. It might be that, well, like you said, yeah, Rutgers women's basketball was a great time, whether Caitlin Clark was here or not, right? Yep. I may have found something to be invested in.

How do we address the gender pay gap in sports?

Tangela: To your point, I've been seeing a lot of things about how the impact of Caitlin Clark and that draft class, because again, don't want to forget your Angel Reese or Kamilla Cardoso's, that whole class, even the class before that came in. And what they're doing is, again, the Bird/Magic, and we talk about pay parity. And when you think about where we are with the WNBA, it wasn't like this 20, 25 years into the NBA Magic and Larry Bird weren't becoming millionaires necessarily from their on-court endeavors. Magic Johnson is a business person and had theaters and restaurants.

Adam: Magic theaters everywhere.

Tangela: All those things. And that's how he more so grew his funding or his kind of business portfolio and grew that there. So I do think as we work for equity from a pay standpoint, it's important to think about that. And now I do want to see more equity, and that's where you think about the access. If there was access and exposure earlier, maybe we do see a similar trajectory or it'd be a little bit closer from a pay standpoint. Parity wise, you do think about that. And as we advocate for more pay, I know a lot of people are appalled when they hear the salary cap and where we are for the WNBA rosters, and you think about a similar place of where the NBA was at the same stage, and it's not necessarily that far off, but back to your chicken and egg comment, if there was an opportunity for a women's league when the NBA started, maybe we'd be in a similar space.

Adam: Be closer to parity. Now, the idea of sports being inclusive in that women's sports is here for you to enjoy it if you choose to enjoy it. And by the way, Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese, they're going to probably sell me a Big Mac at some point in the next two years. Great. That's great too. And I think that's probably what we're about to see here. I think when Caitlyn was going to sign her contract, when people started hearing the money, everyone went, "wait, what?" It wasn't in front of people until they had somebody to follow through that journey.

Tangela: And that's part of it. And again, I'm not advocating saying, "oh, yes or no," just kind of giving context. And so I think the people who are in leadership positions within the WNBA are working as well as the players and their players association are actively working to find ways, how do we move this forward and get into a better position from a pay parity standpoint. And that all comes with, again, the rise in women's sports, sponsorship, corporate partnerships, organizations like Adidas, Nike, MasterCard, Visa, all of these organizations buying into women's sports, and that's where we'll see that growth.

What’s the value of representation for young girls in sports?

Adam: I also want to talk a little bit about how you see the value of this limelight for younger women, girls. I have kids at home and I have a daughter that plays some sports. She's not particularly into, she's tried out a lot of stuff, and I do think it's a little bit harder. I think it was harder for her growing up to have as many female athletes that you had a bunch of things to talk about and say, but it's so in the vernacular and in the mouths of little boys. My son at one point, he could tell you every roster of every NBA team, what college every guy went to. And it's not that my daughter couldn't have sought that out, but it wasn't as readily available. And it's not there yet, but I think we're getting there. What's the value of that to you?

Tangela: I think it's invaluable. I don't think there's a number or that you can place on that. And I was probably more similar to your son. I used to be proud about, I can name every NBA team. I can remember nights that I was stressed in Eastern Conference finals when Chauncey Billups and the Nets, they were going up and we'd be about to lose and I'd be stressed. But I think that's what I'm interested in seeing, where again, the gender of the athletes don't matter, but to your point, for young girls, I'm excited for them to see people who resemble them doing what they may aspire to do. I think that's the value is representation matters. That's the thing. I don't think you can place a number on that. And for young women like your daughter or my nieces or nephews or young women walking down the street, future CMU Chippewas, that may have interest in coming in, competing for us because we do have a program here where we are building and going out and competing every day.

And so I think that's what matters is seeing that you can go out and do this and there is an opportunity for you to continue on past the youth level. And I think that that is the values that you can have something greater and you can use this to go on and do life, whether, again, whether that's in professional sport or again, going out and being the CEO of an organization or being an entrepreneur in running your own corporation or starting your own business. And so I think we're seeing, we're looking to see more growth in youth sports. I see information where it says, young girls are discouraged from playing sport after a certain age. And that is discouraging because there was a certain time when you would drive down the street and you just see youth fields full of whether it's T-ball or my favorite sport is tennis because I actually know how to do that one or these different, or even a basketball or a soccer, a big youth sport. And so you want to know that young girls feel like they can continue on. And so I think that's the value seeing something they can aspire to...

Adam: Or be inspired by it too. I think sometimes professional athletes and people who have those personalities in those fields do for you is particularly, I mean, I'm going to focus on people who are positive, but people who have some sense of positivity and it or not, our gender identity is part of us. And when you see somebody again that you can relate to or looks like you or sounds like you, or they're from the same town as you or whatever it is, you kind of go, oh, okay. And I think seeing more women who rise to that level and can get that attention even outside of their sport doing things that are adjacent, I think of people who've been largely positive in like Shaquille O'Neal, right?

Tangela: I mean you do have your Candace Parkers, and again, I'm always a fan of Serena who's a fierce competitor, which Serena...

Adam: And who transcended the sport too.

Tangela: Naomi Osaka, who's up and coming, big advocate for mental health, which is, I don't think you can talk about sport or anything today without talking about mental health and the importance of that. Even…

Adam: Simone Biles did the same.

Tangela: And, so I don't think you can talk about the rise in women's sports without talking about Simone Biles. How do we get this far into this conversation?

Adam: We didn't even talk about her once.

Tangela: ...without talking about Simone Biles and with the Olympics coming up. And so the equality, we're starting to see that with the number of athletes being equal for the first time ever in the history of the Olympics. And so I think it's really important to see, to your point, positive influences, people you can follow, people who are inspirational to you that, again, representation matters for a number of identities that you may hold. Whether it's, again, gender background of all sorts. Representation matters is I think what ultimately matters here.

Adam: Every year there's more women who are officials, not just in women's sports, but in men's sports too. And you kind of just start to see that parity kind of creep up, and hopefully it doesn't seem that significant to kids who are in junior high and high school now by the time they are in their twenties. That's just how it is. And that should…

Tangela: And we'll start seeing less first. And I know that may sound like, well, what do you mean we want to see less first? And you want to be in a position where you can't count the number of a certain type of person on your hands. You want to say, oh yeah, there are a certain number of women or a certain number type of person in this field because there are so many, you can't. And that's not a bad thing toward any certain group that has access currently. It's just thinking about you want to be so many that you don't even think about the fact that there are only three or four or 10 or 12. And speaking of officials again and where we are, just want to again, shout out to Marcy Weston who was here and played a great role in being an official, a coach, an administrator, paved the way for people like myself, which I was not a coach, I'm a career administrator, which is a newer phenomenon in the world of athletics, she's someone who helped pave the way for athletics for women, same with Fran Koenig who did a lot for athletics for women, but just wanted to put that out there since we are at Central Michigan and Marcy actually led officials. And so again, we want to continue to see first barrier breakers, but as we continue to go on, we want to be so many that it's just the norm, how they make this the norm. I mean, you have great people to brag about. I mean, they did great things. We hosted a Final Four here before it was officially the Final Four. 1980. The NCAA didn't even have the Final Four until '81, '82. And so I think there's a great history here that I think people should know about and written about it, but anytime we can share how much Central Michigan has played a part in what women's athletics is, what women's athletics will become, we should do that. We take great pride in being CMU Chippewas and what we'd contribute to greater higher education, greater intercollegiate athletics, greater athletics as a whole. I think we look to do that and tell our story.

What intentional change is happening in women’s college sports?

Adam: And when you talk about these organizations that are playing host all these young female athletes as they're coming up into the college, how do you see these organizations changing? I mean, at a college level, at an NCAA, NCAA level, what are sort of the positive changes that you're seeing in terms of that access and that equity for women's sports?

Tangela: So there's a lot of changes happening in college athletics right now, but just from a broader standpoint, I think we're starting to see more intentionality in what organizations are doing from a leadership standpoint, from different initiatives that are being put in place from, again, marketing standpoint, from who's leading different areas of an organization, from who's coaching the organization, from who's on the rosters of different organizations, from, again, what you're seeing on their commercials. I think intentionality is one of the bigger things that we're seeing different in organizations as it relates to specifically women's rise in sports within organizations. Not sure if that's specific enough, but I think intentionality is one of the bigger things that we are seeing that's different is we know that there is some marketability, there's some profitability in women's athletics. And so how can we be intentional about that? And I think anytime you can attach some, again, value to what we're looking at from a business standpoint, people are going to attach onto it. And I think that's what we're seeing. So intentionality.

How do we keep the momentum going for women’s sports?

Adam: Alright, so with all of this stuff happening with the zeitgeist that is currently around women's sports, how do we hold onto it? How do we take the most advantage of this to make sure that it isn't something that's just trending on Twitter for six months and then kind of fizzles out? What are the things you hope to see happen or the things that you would like to see folks take advantage of?

Tangela: I would like to see people keep the excitement. So continuing to watch these sports and buy the league pass and keeping their subscriptions, watching these games when they're coming on buying tickets, we are seeing the highest, I think, attendance at WNBA games continuing to go, continuing to buy the merchandise, continuing to go see Coco Gauff and they almost Naomi Osaka and doing that and not letting it fizzle out when A'ja Wilson's shoe drops buying it. I know everybody was all worked up because Caitlin Clark was getting a shoe when the shoes drop, buy them. So we want to make sure that we're continuing to get worked up and excited as these things are happening and paying attention to them and putting our money behind those things because that's how things work. We have to make sure we're continuing to support, continuing to advocate and continuing to follow and be a part of this special thing that's happening in women's sports at both the youth and higher levels or all of the levels. So youth, college and professional levels. And we'll continue to watch how college evolves, which again, I get to actively be a part of, but continue to be engaged and continue to be excited about it and again, supported actively.

Adam: Awesome. Yeah, it feels like there's so much momentum that it would be a real letdown if of it, I'm sure as I'm that as we see some of these women that are coming out of college athletics, going to professional spaces, and that starts to normalize, probably the explosive excitement will go away, but do you feel like the fan base is a "there" now? Does it feel different for you than other times that there have been peaked interest in a particular team?

Tangela: Yeah, no, I think, right. So again, Caitlin Clark topic of conversation, and we're just getting started. We're going in. And normally when a team has a first pick of the draft, there's a reason, and it is not always because it's the best team. So I think we see excitement with that and there'll be some settling because that's how things work. But I think there will be continued excitement as people start watching and people are starting to notice that the WNBA is a great product. It's a quality product that Caitlin Clark going to the league has brought new eyes and they're watching more than just the Fever games and they're starting to see, "oh, I've heard of Diana Taurasi before, but now I get to see her compete and she can ball. So I'm going to watch, I'm gonna watch these games. I'm going to watch these ACEs games."

And so I do think there's going to be continued excitement. There will be some leveling because again, that's how life works. But I do think there will be continued draw of fans, not only to the WNBA, but again, continued draw to a new wave of tennis fans. Again, Serena has retired. Venus hasn't announced the retirement, but she's slowly not competing. But again, you have your Coco Gauffs, you have your Naomi Osaka, you have a new wave of tennis players coming in, and there's a new wave of people played in college now, going to play pro after college. And the NWSL, then you have your hockey league. So I do think we will see some leveling, but I do think there are more eyes, there's more access to watch these sports. There are 50,000 streaming opportunities. So I do think we'll see that. But I do think people are interested and they want something to watch.

They want something to support. They're excited. And I think we'll see continued growth in some capacity. The access through social media helps the brand of the leagues, helps the brand of the athletes in those leagues. And so I think continuing to take advantage of that will be important, which is why you see positions in those leagues or positions for these athletes where someone is someone's job to make sure that their personal brand or personal image is continuously out there because they'll keep people engaged. And I think those type of roles will continue to be important for the future of not only women's sports, but sport in general.

Adam: Well, this has been really enlightening and it's making me want to go home and check my Disney Plus subscription to see how many WNBA games I'm going to get. Yes, I know. Almost everything is streaming this year, so you and I, the favorite children of our parents.

Tangela: You said it. I didn't.

Adam: We'll be watching. I'm so happy that you got to come in and talk to me today. Thanks, Tangela.

Tangela: Thank you for having me.

Adam: Awesome. Thank you. Thanks for stopping by The Search Bar. Make sure that you like and subscribe so that you never have to search for another episode.

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The views and opinions expressed in these episodes are strictly those of the host and guest speaker.